The Lothians and Border Horse
What’s in a name?
The Lothians had a chequered history, not least in the imposition of a series of confusing name changes! On the one hand, this can lead to mix-ups in attribution; on the other, it can help date symbols and iconography on artefacts.
The regiment originated at the end of the 18th century, when the threat of invasion from France appeared both real and imminent. As the army expanded many units of second and third line troops were mustered – volunteers, fencibles and yeomanry amongst them. The Lothians served only at home in the 1800s (and was in fact disembodied between 1838 and 1846) until as the 20th century opened volunteers served overseas in the Boer War. After the Edwardian Territorial Army reorganisations it made significant contributions to the front-line forces in both world wars.
One of our first ‘personal view‘ display cases in the museum has a display about Warrant Officer 2nd class, Alan Goodwin, who was in D squadron of the Lothians and Border Horse during the First World War.
This is a brief timeline of the regimental titles:
|
1797–1827 |
|
|
1827–38 |
Dunbar troop only, unpaid |
|
1846–88 |
East Lothian Yeomanry Cavalry |
|
1888–1900/2 |
Lothians and Berwickshire Yeomanry |
|
1900/2–08 |
Lothians and Berwickshire Imperial Yeomanry |
|
1900–02 |
19th Company, 6th (Scottish) Battalion, Imperial Yeomanry (volunteers from the regiment) |
|
1908–19/22 |
|
|
1914–19 |
Expands to 1st, 2nd and 3rd (1915) line formations |
|
1922–36 |
19th(Lothians and Border Horse) Armoured Car Company |
|
1936–38 |
Lothians and Border Yeomanry |
|
1938–46 |
1st Lothians and Border Yeomanry (and 2nd Lothians and Border Horse) |
|
1947–56 |
1st/2nd Lothians and Border Horse |
On 31 October 2014 the Regimental Title was reactivated within The Scottish and North Irish Yeomanry (SNIY), a new Reserve Combat Formation. The Edinburgh based element took the title E (Lothians and Border Yeomanry) Squadron and is based at Redford Barracks.
And this is a brief note of the regiment’s nicknames:
The Princes Street Lancers
The Loathsome and Bloodies
The Lothians
The Edinburgh Tank Corps
(The) L&B
118 thoughts on “The Lothians and Border Horse”
The Scottish Yeomanry was raised on 1 November 1992 as a result of Options for Change with RHQ & HQ Squadron at Inchdrewer House, Colinton Road, Edinburgh by transfer and resuscitation of old regiments as squadrons. The Regiment consisted of a Headquarters and three Sabre Squadrons:
“HQ” (Lothians and Border Horse) Squadron (Edinburgh) was formed by the re-roling of 225 Squadron, 154 (Lowland) Regiment Royal Corps of Transport.
I served in HQ Sqn (Lothians and Border Horse) from when the Scots Yeo were raised in 1991/2 until the Regiments untimely demise in 1999
Being a Reservist in the Scottish and North Irish Yeomanry,
(formed in 2016), I am in E Squadron, the Edinburgh Detatchment.
The Lothians and Border Horse are out antecedent Regiment and we would be humbled for family members to get in touch with us about family members.
Currently also we are expanding our archives in dedication to our history too.
People can message me on Facebook or email me and I can give points of contact at my Sqn for questions or queries.
Kind regards,
Dave.
I apologise for the poor grammar, auto correct has a lot to answer for with changing words.
I’m currently in Musselburgh Scotland and when my dad was alive he attended several reunions in or near Musselburgh during the 1980’s and 1990’s.
Does anyone know which church and cenotaph he will have attended?
Regards David
Only the church on the coast at Dunbar with a memorial out in the road, it’s dedicated the L&BH.
Have you joined this site?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/members/
I have over 34,000 dog-tags to members of the RAC from ww2 and lots of these are from soldier in the L&BY. Please contact Dan at extremerelichunters.com to see if we have your relatives dog-tags, just give us the name, serial number of the soldier in question, or if the name is not something too common, then possibly just the surname and initials might do. Your more than welcome to claim the tags if we do have them.
Hi Dan
My dad was in the 2nd Lothian and Boarder Horse Yeomanry during WWII.
I have his medals but no dog tags
I’m away from home currently but his name was:
Henry Ferguson Marshall.
He served with 2nd Lothians in North Africa and Italy.
Best regards DM
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My father, Harry Norfolk was REME attached to the 2nd Lothians & BH during the Italian campaign. His number was 14420163. Any information about his time in Italy would be appreciated
I am trying to find out more about my relative Peter Alan Stevens who served in 2 Lothians & Border from Nov 1942 to Jan 1946. I think he was a trooper.
Does anyone know of him or would anyone have any photos of the unit form this time that they would be willing to share?
Andrea
My dad was in 2nd Lothians during the period of your interest.
Check my face book page photos…there are several from his time in North Africa and Italy.
Regards David Marshall
Hello
Hello, I am currently researching 7889122 Trooper Alexander Lyall on behalf of his daughter. He enlisted into the Lothian and Border Yeomanry in 1937. I have his AB 64 which also has a Field Medical Card with it, showing he was wounded (Gun shot wound) on the 21 May, admitted to the CSS on the 22nd, admitted to 154 Field Ambulance on the 27th, Evacuated to another medical facility on the 28th and returned to duty on the 15th June. His wound is reported in Casualty List No. 226 however there are no details of him in your excellent website. On his return to UK he joined 52 Regt RAC then was posted to Egypt and later transferred to the ACC. Does anyone have any additional information such as what Sqn he was in?
Regards Roy
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Is there any way of finding details of Trooper Burn Matthew (1868-1899). He was mentioned in a newspaper article as being in the Barton Troop, Midlothian Yeomanry as of October 1894.
Hello Ed
I think you’re already on the right lines – newspaper articles will be the best route to finding out more. We don’t hold any regimental records and if enrolments or musters survive they will most likely be found at the National Archives at Kew, London under the War Office records. For Midlothian records and connections, Edinburgh (http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/libraries/) and Midlothian (https://www.midlothian.gov.uk/info/458/local_and_family_history) may be able to help further.
David
Thanks. I understand the National Archives go to 1862, which is too old. I’ll explore the other sites.
If you have any success, we’d love you to post it on our FB page
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My Father James W Ritchie was in the 2nd Lothians and Border Horse and served in Italy. he was injured and was treated in an Italian hospital before being sent back to Edinburgh to recover. He was a tank commander. He is pictured centre first row.
If anyone has any documentation on his service I would like to hear from you.
Thank you.
I guess the picture didn’t load the first time.
Hi David,
Thank you for your enquiry. I’m afraid we do not keep any records for WW1 or WW2 service personnel. You might like to contact the UK National Archives at Kew through their website.
All the best,
Hanita
Hi Charlie, that’s very knowledgeable of you. Yes, you are correct. Would you like to join the L&BH facebook page?
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Hereward Dundas-Taylor
My father Tom Sloan, served with “A” Squadron , 1st Lothians and Border Yeomanry, fighting/travelling with his troop of “Crabs” from FALAISE (Aug 1944) to HANKENSBUTTEL in Kreis Gifhorn, Germany (October 1945).
He wrote a diary of the above period, which covers, among other things, the capture of Boulogne, and the attempt to land on Walcheren. It is handwritten, & runs, I estimate, to approx. 25,000 words. I am taking advantage of an enforced rest after an operation to type up this diary ; not sure whether deciphering my fathers’ writing or the actual typing is the hardest !
But anyone o/s the family would struggle to decipher it, for sure.
There will be loads of tidying up and proof-reading to do at the end, which if all goes well be approx December. When I reach that stage I’ll want someone with expert knowledge to help with some of the names (I did say that my father’s writing was not the clearest !).
Just one example of many, he often mentions a Major de “Vigns” (??).
So I thought I’d give advance notice of this “developing situation”, in case someone out there knows who might be able to help later on.
I intend to share the end-product with any interested parties (e.g. this museum, descendants of those named in this diary etc), but we are a few months away from that stage at the moment !
The name you are looking for is Major R de C Vigors. Here is an extract from the Lothians’ War Diary of July 20, 1944:
“C Sqn
Sqn comes under orders of 31 Army Tk Bde and attached to 7RTR for an attack on Maltot. Maj R de C Vigors 63557 took 1 and 3 Tps forward to Roceville for an expected attack in the evening. Two British minefields bar the route of 7RTR. Attack postponed since Canadians in the Caen left flank break-out failed to take high ground on East bank of the R Odon.”
I would appreciate it if you could contact me, as my father, Cecil Henry (Harry) Mitchinson was also in the Lothians & landed in Normandy on July 12 – 13, 1944, with B Squadron, 3 Troop. He was a radio operator in a Sherman Crab flail tank. I have some information which may be of interest to you. Here is another extract from the War Diary:
“At about 1030hrs the LCT to our left and rear hit a mine and sank, the crew and passengers being taken off by another LCT. It was about this time that we saw a rocket ship blown up and just disappear, presumably by a direct hit. A few LCTs were pulling out by now and most of them seemed to be damaged in one way or another. One in particular was
blazing from its well deck and we all thought that it had had it; I think that this must have been Tom Sloan’s boat.”
Lt Sloan is mentioned a number of times in the War Diary. You may be interested in a copy.
Bob,
Feel free to e-mail me on [email protected], or phone 01565-634604.
Chris
Just to clarify matters, the above extract mentioning LCT, mines etc. relates to the assault on Westkapelle on 1st November 1944, not Normandy. Obviously, by the time the Lothians landed in Normandy on 13-14th July, the beaches had been cleared of obstacles and opposition.
Michel Sabarly
Please feel free to share any information with us in our FB group:
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To Chris Sloan. My father also served in ‘A’ Squadron and was involved in the capture of Boulogne, notably the assault on the Tresorerie by Crabs. His name was Gordon Lesley Perman. Would your Father’s recollections have any mention of him?
Thanks
Stuart
Stuart,
Sorry to be so slow to notice your comment from 2 months ago. No, there is no mention of your father in his diary. However, he wrote , presumably deliberately, from a narrow perspective mainly covering just the 15-20 men in his particular Troop. If you’d like to e-mail me (see my 20/3/18) comment, I’d be happy to forward you a copy of my Dad’s diary, if it would still be pertinent to you.
Chris
Hi Stuart,
would you like to post his details on our growing FB group?
There are a lot of members who are related to 1L&BH and 2L&BH in the group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
Hi,
I researching the career of Temporary Regimental Sergeant Major Reginald Leslie Murphy, who served on the Permanent Staff of the Lothians and Border Horse from 30 June 1906 to 2 January 1920. His service records (available on Ancestry and FindMyPast) indicate no overseas service during World War I but don’t specify which be served with during World War I. (It’s my understanding that 3 battalions were formed for the war.) Do you have any further information regarding RSM Murphy?
Reply from Bill Wilson, Local History Officer.
Dear Mr. Mattingly,
We wouldn’t have any details of RSM Murphy himself but after making some enquiries I have been reliably informed that the following information gives the layout of the Lothians and Border Horse Yeomanry.
The regiment cloned itself twice: 1/1 served overseas completely; 2/1 served in its place at home and in Ireland at the end of the war; 3/1 provided training and drafts, but didn’t last the war being incorporated into a larger reserve Cavalry Regiment half way through. RSM Murphy would seem to have stayed (a guess) with the 2/1 and would be based wherever RHQ was in its peripatetic postings – first Edinburgh, then Amisfield, then Dunbar, also south of England & places in Ireland.
As permanent staff they were listed in directories – searching the National Library of Scotland online for the relevant Edinburgh PO directories & the Lothians entry could prove fruitful.
The link below will take you to a PDF document giving a small biography of, not only RSM Murphy, but also of his father.
http://www.omsa.org/files/jomsa_arch/Splits/2009/57682_JOMSA_Vol60_3_34.pdf
I hope this will be of some help with your enquiry and I wish you luck with your research.
hello
im trying to find any information i can about my great grandfather. all i know is that he was in the lothian and borders horse at the time of my grandfathers birth 1915 and his trooper number was 1798.
regards
jason.
Hi Jason,
1798 is a very low number, are you sure it is not missing a prefix like 789? Would you like to post his details on our growing FB group?
There are a lot of members who are related to 1L&BH and 2L&BH in the group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
I am trying to trace my great uncle Robert Gray who I am told was in the Land B Yeomanry in the First World War, I was also told that he had served with the regiment in Egypt/Palestine, can you be of any help?
Kind regards,
Robyn
Hello Robyn
I’ve had a look through our (very incomplete) WW1 Lothians listings and see no mention of Robert. However, a quick look at the WW1 Medal index cards (available through Ancestry,co.uk) shows at least one Robert Gray with a Lothians connection. This Robert also served with the Royal Garrison Artillery, Lanark Yeomanry & Royal Field Artillery; His Lothians number was 2892, which may mean he served with 2nd Lothians, and there’s no indication on the card that he served overseas.
The Lothians never served in Egypt/Palestine as a unit. But individuals transferred from Salonika to the 74th Yeomanry Division which had been formed in the Near East late in the war.
There are few records available and with such a common name, I don’t think we can go further. A service number, photograph of him in uniform, or something similar might help.
Good luck in your search.
Charlie Cameron Carruthers here . Your photo of Tpr Buck Dundas Taylor could be ” 2nd Lothians and Border Horse in Tunisia 1943 as the 2nd line fought up to Cassino and Beyond.1st Line Lothians and Border (no Horse) Yeomanry were captured with the 51st Highland Division at St Valery en Caux in 1940 and resurrected to fight in France and beyond after 1944 D-Day. I was the L & B H Association piper in the 80`s and met a lot of the lads that fought in WW2 especially on Remembrance Sunday at the Goldenstones Hotel in Dunbar and as I am an Aden Veteran I was inspired by their yarns.
Hi Charlie, that’s very knowledgeable of you. Yes, you are correct. Would you like to join the L&BH facebook page?
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Hereward Dundas-Taylor
Many thanks, David.
Does anyone know if the 2nd Lothians unit diary from the later years of WW2 is available for examination? My father was in a tank-recovery unit attached to the battalion during the Italian campaign, and while I’d be unlikely to find his name recorded anywhere, I’d like to learn more about how the battalion was employed. Dad had a particular memory of Cassino, of watching the New Zealanders go in (therefore second or third battle, between February and April ’44, and it would be good to try correlating his memories with something more formal. Of course, his battalion-level reminiscences would be of too small a scale to relate to anything in the published accounts (Ellis, Parker etc).
He would occasionally speak of the Peter Elstob book, ‘Warriors for the Working Day’ as a representation of the kind of work his unit did. Anyone know anything about it?
Hello Bob
WW2 Records are held under WO files at the National Archive at Kew (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/) – check there for scope and availability.
With respect to published accounts, can I flag up the following: ‘Driver Advance!’, an outline of the 2nd in WW2: http://capitadiscovery.co.uk/eastlothian/items/188638?query=Driver+advance&resultsUri=items%3Fquery%3DDriver%2Badvance; if you are near Haddington, you can consult it here or see if your local lbrary can source a copy.
Other sources mentioned above may have relevant info, especially http://www.1stlothiansandborderyeomanry.co.uk/File%20htdocs2lothians.html.
Here is a photo of the 2nd Lothians and Border Horse. I believe it to be my Father James W Ritchie speaking to the men.
Hi – I cannot see the picture, can you repost please? Andy
Hi David. Your dad wasn’t 421369 Cpl. Ritchie was he?
We can’t see the picture, but could you post it on the L&BH facebook group page with any details you might have?
There are a lot of members who are related to 1L&BH and 2L&BH in the group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
Sirs,
I am looking for information on my husband’s grandfather. James Gordon Foggo served in the Lothian and Border Horse for 3 years prior to his emigration to Canada in 1910. Foggo was living in N Leith until 1901 when he was orphaned. Known relatives were living in Tranent, Haddingtonshire. Any guidance as to where service records for that period might be found would be greatly appreciated.
Dear Cindy,
We ourselves don’t hold any military records and your best bet would be to get in touch with The National Archives at Kew in London: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
The link below is for the search results for The Lothian and Border Horse service records.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search/search_results.aspx?Page=1&QueryText=Lothians+and+Border+horse+service+records&SelectedDatabases=BOOKSHOP%7cRESEARCHGUIDES%7cWEBSITE
I’ve also put in another couple of web pages that may help with your search.
http://www.1914-1918.net/lothians.htm
http://www.1stlothiansandborderyeomanry.co.uk/history.html
My father, 14275384 Sgt Jack Wilby MM served in 3 troop C Sqn 2nd Lothians in N.Africa and Italy. In the same troop was Jack Leeming who is sadly no longer with us. Dad is now 93 and frail but would be interested to know if anyone remembers him or if indeed any other members of C Sqn are still around. Dad won his MM at Laterina in Italy when his tank threw a track whilst under fire. He bailed out armed only with a pistol and took a German machine gun post, killing or capturing the crew. Maybe someone remembers the incident.
Hello
We have approved your comment in case anyone can help. I would also recommend that you contact:
http://www.scottishveteransassociation.co.uk/
or
http://www.legionscotland.org.uk/
To see if they can help you.
My father served in L&B in North Africa and Italy from 1940 / 1945 Several photos of some men on tanks and other info if any use to you,his name was James Branscombe. ( jimmy)
PS. Would you like to join this page? https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
Hi Graham, Would you like to join the L&BH facebook page? It would be great of you could share some information and pictures of your dad.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
Hereward Dundas-Taylor
My dad was in B Sqn 2nd Lothians in North Africa. A, B C Sqns were the same band of brothers. No doubt our fathers knew each other, even if not closely. Some years ago (1997) I went to Scotland and met some of his former army buddies. It was a fantastic experience. I started a Facebook page for the 2nd L&BH with a chap in France who was very interest in the units history, however we haven’t done much to the site. Have you any other photo’s? Dad was badly wounded in the last week of fighting in North Africa and repatriated to a hospital in Wales, then later Edinburgh for almost a year before being discharged. He died of his wounds in 1977 at the age of 57, but not before living a fruitful life as a vet surgeon.
Hi Mick, my dad served in B Squadron 2LBH in North Africa. He joined the unit in 1939. Our fathers would have known each other, even if not closely. You’ll see a picture of my dad with 3 other tankers beside their Crusader battle tank below in this feed.
Would you like to join this page? https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
Hi Mick, I hope your father is well. Would you like to join the L&BH facebook page? It would be great of you could share some information and pictures of your dad. Another veteran, Frank Gent, who also served in Italy after joining the regiment in the closing weeks of North Africa is still with us. In fact he even got to drive a Sherman just a few years ago!!!
Maybe I can hook Frank up with your dad?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
Hereward Dundas-Taylor
Mick, can you please contact Dan at extremerelichunters.com we have some interesting news
Hi Mick,
your dad served along side my father who was in 2 Troop B Sqn in Nth Africa. Tpr. ‘Buck’ Taylor. I wish I’d seen your post a lot earlier. He might have been able to recognise the other 3 men in the photo on our facebook wall, see link below.
There are a lot of members who are related to 1L&BH and 2L&BH in the group. Would you like to join?
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Sir,
My father, Alexander Gray Gorrie, served with Lothians and Border Horse during WW2. I think it was the 2nd. He was a driver to Lt Col HC Ayscough who was the CO. The CO coincidentally, was badged 13th/18th Royal Hussars (QMO), the Regiment in which I myself served for 21 and a half years! It would be great to find out if my dad is mentioned anywhere or has picture anywhere. Viret in Aeturnum.
Dave Gorrie.
I’m afraid that our own collections relate more to WW1 and before, when the regiment was strongly connected to East Lothian. Other than that we have only the standard reference works, of which I’m sure you are already aware (1st Lothians… Woolward; Driver Advance, 2nd Lothians… Antonio; and Sabres to Scout Cars, Gardiner). It may be that something will turn up in the future as new connections are being made all the time.
A friend & comrade of my father who knew him as ‘Tiger’. Please look at his website http://www.frankdennisgent.com Your father’s photo is there. Number 9 under title of ‘comrades’ We also have a photo of my Italian mum wearing your Dad’s battle dress in Milan 1946 at the end of the war. My dad fought alongside Tiger Gorrie from Algeria, Montecassino to the end of the war. Please contact.
A friend & comrade of my father who knew him as ‘Tiger’. Please look at his website http://www.frankdennisgent.com Your father’s photo is there. Number 9 under title of ‘comrades’ Please contact for more info.
Hi Rina,
Your dad joined my dad’s unit in North Africa, B Squadron 26th Armoured Brigade, 2nd Lothian and Border Horse! They had Crusaders and Valentines and possibly Matilda’s. B Sqn had Crusaders then in March 1945 Sheman’s. Dad was badly wounded 23rd April 29143, just before they took Tunis (he lost his right leg). In this feed, there is a photo of my dad beside his Crusader battle tank on New Years day 1943 in Tunisia.
Have you any more photos of your father?
PS. Would you like to join this page? https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
Hi David, Lt. Col. H. C. Ayscough died in TIDWORTH Military Hospital on the 13th February 1940, quite early in the war and whie they were a Machine Gun Company.
Sirs,
I am trying to find out a bit more about my father who served in WW2 and who died in 1987
His name was Bruce Allen, from Edinburgh (Also known as John Bruce Allen or JB Allen.
His number may have been 420615
I believe he was in the Lothian & Borders Horse and I think he may have been seconded to a tank regiment that was at the Battle of Monte Cassino. I also have distant memories of being told he was in North Africa, but I’m not sure.
I also think he was a mechanic or auto electrician to trade and he went to work on the tanks.
I was also told a story of him bringing POW’s back from Italy (possibly Rome)
If he was in the LBH is this why I can’t find him on some of the Military Records websites.
Any help, advice or pointers would be appreciated.
Hi Richard,
have you found any more information? What was your dad’s serial number? Do you know what Sqn he was in? My dad was in B Squadron 2LBH.
Would you like to join this page? https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
Hi Richard. Your father was indeed in the 2nd L&BH and the serial number you have is correct. 420615 Cpl. Allen, J.B.
I am not sure when he joined or left but he joined well was before the 2L&BH becoming an Armoured unit and while it was a Machine Gun Battalion. My dad, Tpr ‘Buck’ Taylor was in 2 Troop, B Squadron. They would have known each other very well as he was also joined the unit quite early, in mid 1939 in fact. A, B & C Sqn’s were very close. I have a unit group photo, maybe even two, which your dad will be in.
On the 20th April 1940 420615 Cpl. Allen underwent a course at Swansea as an Electrician. On the 5th January 1941 he was attached A.F.V. School Gunnery Wing, Lulworth Engalnd, on a course with 420240 L/Cpl. Lindsay.
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My father James Branscombe was in the Lothian and Border Horse 1940-1945 and served in North Africa and Italy. my email [email protected] i]I have some photos of his regiment in Africa along with other details in regards to the war if interested.
Dear Sir
You may be interested to learn that the regiment has been reformed as E (Lothians and Border Horse) Squadron Scottish & Northern Irish Horse we are based at Redford Barracks, we are recruiting and our training night is Wednesday from 1930 hours.
Thanks Andy – very good to know, & I’ve updated our timeline accordingly.
My great-great uncle John Robb (1862-1913) served with the Lothian & Borders Yeomanry from at least 1892. He was an architect and later County Surveyor for Midlothian.
At the time of his death he was a Sergeant Instructor of Musketry for the Yeomanry. Robb was a fine shot and took part in many NRA competitions at Bisley.
We have no photographs of John Robb and wonder whether there are any photographs of the company from the 1890’s that may show him ?
Hello Steven
I’m afraid there is no-one identified as John Robb amongst our Lothians related collections, but all is not lost.
Rifle competitions were a feature of the period and group portraits and newspaper accounts were regular occurrences: it’s just chance that dictates whether we have copies of the former but it’s also likely that Sergeant John would have been photographed many times and somewhere out there, there might be copies still.
It would also be worth checking with Midlothian Archives and Local History: http://www.midlothian.gov.uk/info/476/local_history_and_heritage/152/midlothian_archives
I am trying to trace my great grandfathers service record who served with the Lothian & Borders horse in W.W.1.
Anyone who could supply me with any information would be greatly appreciated.
Hello Andrew
It’s possible that we might be able to take you a stage or two further forward. The National Archives at Kew have made available surviving service records and medal index cards (but only via commercial sites such as ancestry.com). However, we might have a note of your great grandfather amongst the research we’ve already done on the regiment. If you can supply us with his name, rank (if known), service number (if known), and any place served (if known) we can have a look. If you just have his name, we could have a quick look for his medal index card through our library subscription to Ancestry: available free to all who come to the John Gray Centre.
Dear Mr. Dundas-Taylor,
As much as we would like to say that we are the proud possessors of the war diaries I’m afraid there will be a better chance of finding them in The National Archive at Kew.
I’ve attached a link to their web site.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
I bought a copy. Many thanks. Great stuff!
After reviewing a copy of the transcription along with a copy of the actual war diaries, I have to say it’s quite disappointing. So far I have found around 1500 errors in names, places and dates, including my fathers serial number.
So that others may not face the same disappointment, I have been undergoing the rather large task of re-transcribing the 400 or so pages of the original war diaries. It will take me about 6 months, but the result will a near exact copy down to the formatting in a searchable PDF. I hope to complete the task by the end of June 2020.
I am the son of Trooper Buchan Dundas Taylor (No.7591994) of B Squadron, 26th Armoured Brigade, 2nd Lothian & Border Horse, First Allied Army North Africa. He was seriously wounded 23APR’43 whilst attempting to save the life of Tpr Jack Hunter and repatriated to England, then Scotland. Seen pictured here standing on the right with service revolver.
I have several wartime photographs including portraits, regimental group photos (2) and a photo taken on New Years Day 1943 on the front line with his Crusader battle tank and crew. I have also read all the books including ‘Driver Advanced’ and many books on the Nth African campaign including ‘A Time to Die’ (there are two different books of this title).
I have a typed copy of the regimental records which is very interesting. However, I would like to locate a copy of the original diaries plus the associated regimental documentation that includes the recovery of tanks, damage assessments and etc. A lot of information is not contained in the Sqn diaries. I am a member of 30Sqn RAAF Assoc. and I have all the associated documentation from WWII and this has far greater detail than the basic daily account found in the Reg. diaries.
Can anyone tell me where I can located this information?
7591994 is the wrong serial number that was incorrectly transcribed into the text version of the war diaries. For the record, it should have been 7891994.
See my post above regarding the war diaries.
Hello John
I would be delighted to learn more about ‘T Dale’, who I think is SSM T Dale of Headquarters Section, A Squadron, L&BH who served under Major Walter Waring. The fact that my own grandfather was in the same squadron, and was the farrier who would have shod Jean D & Patros, adds even more to my interest. I’ve contacted you directly.
David
My grandfather, Cpl. Alexander Fyall, was serving at the same time under Major Waring. My dad (also Alexander Fyall) gave me this picture and said he was Major Waring’s batman during the war and also served as a valet to Major Waring, whom I believe became an M.P after the hostilities ended. I think my grandfather’s photo was taken in Tiflis.
Hello Robert
Yes Indeed – Alexander was an officer’s batman and he was part of A Squadron. We already have him listed here (scroll down)! Our source was the War Diary released by the National Archives – it gives good details of what the squadron did in their first period of service. The Archives levy a small charge but the Diary is well worth reading.
David
Hi David, if you’re talking about the 2ndL&BH war diary, it’s full of errors. I’ve found about 1,500 errors in names, places, serial numbers and even completely missed daily entries. Not wanting to take away from the enormous effort of transcribing the diaries, I think the Lt.Col. who did the transcription suffered from memory loss and vision impairment and on top had typing difficulties.
I am in the process of re-transcribing the documents, which is a 6-month process. I hope to be finished by JUL2020 and the result will be treble-checked!
I have a picture Journal made by Thomas Dale from Oct 1916 to JAN 1919 , starting in ‘Salanika’ and finishing ‘ Varna’ in the Balklands , with his horses ‘Jean D’ & ‘Patros’ : contact me if you want to trace anyone about that time from thes pictures.
I believe my grandfather John Hutcheson Dickson (1897-1974) served in L&B Horse in Salonika, possibly in D Squadron from some time in late 1915 until he was commissioned to the Northumberland Fusiliers in 1918. His friend (who died in 1919 but whose sister JHD married in 1922) Robert Rae also served in L&B Horse. They volunteered in October 1914. It would be a long shot to imagine that they might be included in some of your photos but possible? My photo here is of my grandfather newly recruited, just after his 17th birthday. Best wishes, Malcolm Rae Dickson
Hello Malcolm
I think we might have JH Dickson listed in ‘A’ Squadron – but as JA Dickson; my fault with the transcription of the War Dairy. The name appears in No2 Troop on this page. We have access to Mr Dale’s (comment above) photo album showing the Squadron in Salonika, but I haven’t noted JHD as individually listed.
This picture is of my Dad Cecil Victor Clarke who joined the 2nd lothians after 75 LAA were disbanded he is standing on the left, I posted his War Diaries on WW2Talk. Could anyone name the others in the picture.
Hi Alan, my dad Ronald Larry (1923- 2004) is at the front on the left hand side. I have his war diaries too. I would love to read your father’s
My dad was with B Sqn 2nd Lothians in Nth Africa. See the picture of the Crusader battle tank in this feed for his picture. I’d be very interested in reading your father war diary if that was ok with you. Who else kept a war diary?
My father Ron Larry is the man crouching in front of your father. I have the same photograph and others but not sure if your father is in those too. I have his personal war diaries and stories he told me before he died. Please contact me. Regards Tracy
PS. Would you like to join this page? https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
Gus
Thanks for your message…is there anything you can send me via e mail
I do hope you dad is in great health
Hello Ian
I see our librarian colleagues have changed their catalogue. ‘Driver Advance!’ is an outline of the 2nd in WW2: http://capitadiscovery.co.uk/eastlothian/items/188638?query=Driver+advance&resultsUri=items%3Fquery%3DDriver%2Badvance; if you are near Haddington, you can consult it here or see if your local lbrary can source a copy. Other sources mentioned above may have relevant info, especially http://www.1stlothiansandborderyeomanry.co.uk/File%20htdocs2lothians.html.
Sir
I’m trying to find out more about my father Tom Main who served in the 2nd Lothians from 1939 to 1946 his last posting was at the Aborfield apprentice school. I know he served in North Africa and Italy where he was wounded and returned to Law hospital in Scotland to recover. I have his service medal and service record book
Any info would be very much appreciated
Regards
Ian main
Hi Ian,
My father served with the same reg in North Africa and Italy.He is still living at 96 years and some memories are good. I have lots of photo’s. you can contact me on 01875610954 if you want.
Cheers
Gus
Hi Tom, my father joined the 2nd Lothians in 1939 as well and served until April 1943 when he was severely wounded just before the fall of Tunis. In this feed, you will see him in a photo beside his battle tank with three others. I’d like to see your dad’s service record book. I also have a copy of the unit diaries.
I also set up a Facebook Page for the unit, but admittedly I haven’t done much with it just yet. In any case, maybe you’d like to join it?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
Hi Ian,
In, our father would have known each other. My dad joined the same year as yours. Would you like to join the 2L&BH facebook site to share information and pictures you may have of your father?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/members/
Hi Ian, my dad served in the regiment from the very start until he was wounded in April 43 in North Africa.
I’d really like to share information with you. Would you like to join the growing facebook group?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
I am looking for information on Trpr A.C Brown who won 3rd prize Lothian and Borders Horse Recruit in 1909. Some how his prize came to Australia to the Museum where I volunteer.
Here’s the Yeomanry band parading on Dunbar High Street, post 1902.
As a mounted formation the Yeomanry’s music was provided by a brass band, on horseback. However, the SE Scotland Artillery Militia (based at Dunbar) had pipes and drums as did the 7th Volunteer battalion, the Royal Scots (based in Haddington). We’re not at present aware of the names of individuals involved, but it is almost certain that traces will be found in the pages of the local press as all the bands had a high public profile. If you can’t visit the John Gray Centre the Local History and Archives team may be able to help. You can contact them directly from this page: http://www.johngraycentre.org/about/archives/
Does anyone know if/when the regiment had pipes & drums and if so, who were the Pipe Majors and when?
Yes, I had someone contact me I think on our facebook group whose father was a piper with 2L&BH. It was just in the last week, until then I didn’t consider the thought that they had a pipers attached. Silly me, the Lothians is Scots after all!!!
Would you like to join the growing facebook group?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
I am trying to find out some details of my father’s service in Lothians and Border Horse. His name was Bain Gillies. He came from Leith, Edinburgh but sadly passed away some years ago. I am now in a position to try and spend some time researching his war service – although I don’t think he was a “model” soldier. Mr Antonia, referred to above, attended my mothers funeral a number of years ago, prior to my dad’s death, and we were introduced but unfortunately I didn’t get the opportunity to chat to him on the day.
I look forward to hearing from anyone who can point me in the right direction.
Hi Scott
You don’t say when your father served, but I’m guessing that this website (and the links and contacts within it) would be useful in your search: http://www.1stlothiansandborderyeomanry.co.uk/index.html. The written accounts of the regiment are referred to in posts above.
David,
thank you for your assistance. My father, a tank driver, served during the second World War and was badly wounded.
Hi Scott,
Did you find out more info regarding your father i.e. 1st lothians or 2nd and where he served. I may be able to give you some info.
Hi Scott,
my father was also a tanker with the 2nd Lothian and Border Horse and badly wounded in battle in North Africa. His picture is in this feed, look for the crew of 4 with their Crusader battle tank. Do you have any other information on your father? Do you know his serial number and what type of tanks he served in? Though not 100%, most likely he will have served with the 2nd Lothians.
Have you photos you can share?
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Hi Scott,
I just realised that Antonia was in the same Troop as my dad. 2 Troop, B Sqn, 2L&BH. Dad was the gunner/loader in the troop leaders tank. at 1630hrs 23APR43 Antonia passed their tank with both tracks blown off when dad and his comrade, Driver Tpr. Jack Hunter, lay seriously (mortally for Jack) wounded beside their wrecked Sherman. It’s briefly noted on the top of Pg. 33 in Driver Advance!
If Antonia knew your father that well, he may well have also served in 2 Troop, or at least A, B or C Sqn. They were all close mates. Check out the cover picture of the 4 men in front of the Crusader on the facebook wall of the L&BH group site. My dad is on the right, just maybe your dad is one of the others?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/217119904993/
Hi Does anyone know of the Gladsmuir Norlolk Cavalry in Scotland. A soldier by the name of Mein, or Menzies served with them around 1850 onwards. I presume Gladsmuir is the name of the village in east lothian, or is it Colonel Gladsmuir?
Thanks Richard
Hi Richard
This is a bit of a puzzle. The only local cavalry unit around 1850 was the newly re-embodied Yeomanry: there was a troop at Seton, which would include members from nearby Gladsmuir. We’re not aware of surviving musters.
If it was a regiment still taking its name from the Colonel (unlikely unless very informally) then a check of the Army List around that date would show if an individual called Gladsmuir was an officer. Runs of the Army List are held by major libraries but I think there’s a move to digitise them on genealogy websites; some are available already on the internet archive: http://www.archive.org.
Hello Fraser
You raise a good point and, I think, expose a gap in the record. There are histories of the 17/18th and the 20th companies of the 6th, but I am unaware of any of the 19th. Chapters 27 & 29 of Cassell’s History cover the raising to the Volunteers: see http://archive.org/stream/cassellshistory00danegoog#page/n340/mode/2up. The Internet Archive also has the company histories, Sturrock on the Fifies: http://archive.org/details/fifesinsouthafr00sturgoog, Orr on the 17/18th: http://archive.org/details/scottishyeomanr00watsgoog. I did note that this website mentions TT Cowper: http://www.angloboerwar.com/unit-information/imperial-yeomanry-by-company/2325-19th-company-6th-battalion – there may be more information there.
In general, the Lothians in the last quarter of the 19th C are covered briefly in Gardiner’s Sabres (above) and the pages of the East Lothian (Haddingtonshire) Courier are a rich source for Yeomanry doings: our index is online here:http://www.johngraycentre.org/collections/search?qa%5Bpartner%5D%5BELLOH%5D=ELLOH&qa%5Btitle%5D=Courier+yeomanry&qa%5Bperson%5D=&qa%5Bplace%5D=&qa%5Btime%5D=&qa%5Bsubject%5D=&qa%5Bformat%5D=&qa%5Bidentifier%5D=&cba=Search&cbpt=2 and microfilm copies of the entire run can be consulted here at the JGC.
Thank you very much. I recently got his war records for South Africa, but there is not much detail, as he was discharged after 6 months. perhaps thats when he became a train driver!
I am trying to find out more about my great-grand uncle, Thomas Thomson Cowper who served in the 6th Battalion, 19th Company of the imperial Yeomanry during the Boer War. family tradition has it that as well as previously having been in the Lothians and Berwickshire Yeomanry (As had his father, John Cowper), he ended up driving an armored train in Africa. Any information, or suggestions of books detailing the regiment in the last quarter of the 19th would be much appreciated.
Fraser MacDonald
Hello Dennis
You should look for (for a brief overview) Sabres to Scout Cars, Andrew Gardiner (http://prism.talis.com/eastlothian/items/188627?query=sabres&resultsUri=items%3Fquery%3Dsabres%2B). For a more detailed account, see ‘1st Lothians and Border Yeomanry, WA Woolward, 1946’ and ‘Driver Advance! 2nd Lothians and Border Horse, DG Antonio, 1947′, both published by the Regimental Association and detailing the two line regiments’ campaigns in WW2. If you’re not in a position to come to the JGC, where we have copies, it may be possible to source them through an inter-library loan.
I am writing a chronology of regiments in WW2 – is there a written history of Lothian and Border Horse or possibly a copy of the war diary available. I would be prepared to pay reasonable costs
I have a good copy. What’s your email?
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Hi Dennis,
the War diary from Bovington transcribed in 2002 is full of errors and mistakes in names, places and serial numbers. So far I’ve calculated around 1500 erros. I am in the process of re-transcribing the diaries. I should be done by the end of June 2020.
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